並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep06-0611-%E5%90%83%E7%89%99%E8%86%8F%E6%8B%89%E7%89%99%E8%86%8F-%E7%9D%A1%E5%89%8D%E5%8D%81%E5%88%86/id1519052737?i=1000478348250